Wintergrasp and Tol Barad

The following is a link to Wintergrasp summary from Blizzcon 2008. I only point to this so that we can compare the plans for the 2 areas. Wintergrasp has changed a bit from when it was initially planed.

Tol Barad
We’re also adding a new zone that combines elements of Wintergrasp with the Isle of Quel’danas. During PvP battles, players will fight to take control points across the island. In between PvP battles, the zone serves as a daily quest hub for both factions, while the winning faction will have access to a raid area.

The previous paragraph was from Blizzard’s write up of the a panel at Blizzcon 2009 covering the initial concepts of the zone.


  • Tenacity
  • Dailies and PvP


This image here sums up all of my concerns when the thought of Tenacity is added to the new PvP zone.

The BS Mechanic

The BS Mechanic

My sub-title The BS Mechanic is in my opinion accurate.  Yes it would suck to be on the side that has fewer players however this is not the answer.  Essentially the Horde won last night when the alliance must have had either 70 or 110 people and the horde seemed to have about 30 or less than 1 raid.  It has been a while since I have seen that many stacks of Tenacity.

I have no problems with the total health increase.  It is everything else that is buffed that gets out of hand.

So a Players with 3K dps with this buff now does 11K dps, I thought we wanted to get the 1-shot and 2-shots out of PvP, nope sorry only if the numbers are about equal.

Here is the deal, now that faction changes are implemented it is time to have server faction population balancing drives.  No more of this 3-1 ratio on a server.  Offer free faction changes, usually from Alliance -> Horde on most servers until the  ratio hits 1-1.5/1.25.

I can see a maximum dps increase form Tenacity of about 100% or double your damage but anything else just makes pvp a joke.  It is ok for NPCs to hit that hard because there are these abilities that Tanks get that are called Taunt and they work.  When facing PCs these abilities do nothing and therefore it is a joke.  What this says is ok Side that wants to keep wintergrasp if you really want it don’t play.  Let your side get so much Tenacity that you are all walking raid bosses that can 1 shot everything and have fun.  Oh and all of your vehicles get your buff so you only really need  2-5 of them to take the keep.

Tenacity should be tied to the number of something you control in a zone.  So that if these mini-raid bosses want to keep being mini-raid bosses they have to defend their workshops.  The Horde won when we controlled everything but 1 work shop.  I am sorry but that is so much complete bloody bull shit that it really pisses me off.

The final reason that this mechanic has to be in the game is the worst one of all.  Because stone-keeper shared are one of the token currencies  in the game there needs to be a way for the population disadvantaged to get them some times.  Well this would not be a problem if it was not a binary option.  What I mean is that all bosses in dungeons should drop them all of the time.  You just get bonus ones if you control winter grasp.  Then the low population side can still progress and obtain them even if they don’t control and or always loose the event.  Additionally the vendors for the gear should also be in Dalaran so that they can spend then as well.

Dailies and PvP

Ok I play on PVE or RP servers for a reason.  I hate PvP at all times, except when I actually want to PvP.  I hate quests that make you flag for no reason.  The quests in Grizzly hills I am fine with.  Why because they tell you that you will be flagged.  I do not want to see the major hub for dailies in the next expansion be in a PvP only zone.  That is piss poor design and only caters to the bottom feeders out there.  Look if you are confused by what some of the ramifications of mandatory PvP can have on a mostly PvE game.  Read Bartle’s research on why people play and some of the results of game servers that went PvP.  The short answer is that those that became PvP games eventually died out.  Now I don’t think that this would kill WoW, but I think it would have a chilling effect on the dialy quest system in the expansion if the zone where almost all of the quests were held was a pvp only environment.

The panel mentioned that they heard that some people missed the impromtu PvP that would happen while questing on the Isle during Burning Crusade.  My question that for them would be, are the people that are reminicing about this from a PvP server or a PvE server.  If the former then it does not really matter as they picked to play on a PvP server.  I would also bet for every 1 person that actually likes that type of PvP there are many more who just get pissed off about it.  I would fall under this later category.  When I am playing and trying to get A,B,C done I do not what to have to deal with Dipshit 1,2, and 3 that are flagged and want to cause problems.  Hence why I am on a PvE server.

The best solution for Tol Borad if they want to capture the essence of Wintergrasp and IoQD would be to have it such that when the event is taking place it is a PvP zone.  When the event is over on a PvE server it is enforced neutrality like Shattrath for 10 minutes after every event.  Then the zone reverts to a normal PvE server zone until the next PvP event.  This leaves it open to those that do not want to PvP a viable option to go there get the non-pvp dailies done and leave.

The areas in Grizzly hills that have PvP quests in essence already respond this way, which works.

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  1. says:

    Wintergrasp and Tol Barad | Malchome’s Mind on Gaming…

    I posted a blog entry to discuss the new Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, from the Blizzcon 2009 panel. Mostly I discussed things I do not like about how Wintergrasp works and suggestions to hopefully improve it for the future. Plus thoughts form the communit…